one would be the debt ceiling. the second is the expiration of the continuing resolution that funds an agreement. if you can't reach an agreement, then you'd have a government shutdown. neither one of these outcomes is good. one though is immediately and totally catastrophic. that's the debt default. if republicans now -- if blackburn's comments maybe are indicative of something, if republicans now are moving away a little bit from the threat of the debt default and are now talking about the shutdown and the continuing resolution in this totally screwed up washington that we have right now with all these perverse incentives, that actually does represent progress if republicans are now only talking about a government shutdown and not a debt default. >> do you agree with that? >> i mean, not really. i know what you're saying but i don't really think we should give a lot of rewards. we citizens, we the political class, or we the media for different strains of this kind of leverage. i think the problem and it was in a